>> dom goucher: welcome everybody to thisweek's preneurcast. and some of you will be glad to know but some of you will be sad toknow, it's just me this week. pete is on his honeymoon. congratulations to pete. he's outand about in some other exotic location and has left me to 'man the store'. so this week,rather than just listen to me warble on, i've brought somebody in to have a chat with, andi'll get that in a minute.
Free Printable Business Cards Online, so the intro's going to be pretty brief becausepete won't be able to liken me to barbie dolls and other fictional characters. just wantedto draw your attention, as always, to our sponsors for this week. our first sponsoris read it for me, the book-review service. hopefully, by now, most of you have triedthis out. but if you haven't, please do go
to readitfor.me/preneurcast, and just watchthe video there that pete and i made about the inside of their membership area.it's a great demonstration of the fantastic multimedia reviews that they do for businessand personal development books. it's not just a review service though; we also use it toreview books that we might have read (in the various formats that we consume stuff) becausetheir summaries are awesome, great reminders and great ways to help you remember the corepiece of content from each of those books. so pop over to readitfor.me/preneurcast. andif you sign up for the trial, you'll get an ongoing discount as a preneurcast listener.just a little bit of giving back to the audience there. as i said, this week, it's me on myown. i brought somebody in to have a chat.
now, i've not brought in a luminary from theinternet marketing world, and i've not brought in, well, anybody that you've heard of i don'tthink, because i've brought in one of our preneurcast listeners.it's a guy called john davy. john has been listening to the show, been in contact withus. what makes john interesting is john's a bit of an expert on networking. now, thisis something that we really haven't talked about so far on preneurcast: the art of gettingyourself out and about. i have been known to refer to it as being a 'shaky-hand man'in the past, mainly aimed at people that do it a little bit too heavy handedly.but i'm sure we've all been on the receiving end of somebody networking. i'm sure we'veall wanted to grow our network of contacts,
the people who know about us and what we cando, and the people who we know. having a chat with john offline, i've really picked up somegreat tips and some great insights into this. but john's made pretty much a living of it.so i'm going to bring john on now and have a bit of a chat, and let's just see what wecan bring to the preneurcast listeners in terms of how networking can help. john, thanksfor joining us this week. >> john davy: hello dom. how are you doing?>> dom: i'm great, mate. i'm great. obviously not as well as pete, whichever exotic locationhe's in right now. but you just got back from somewhere as well, haven't you?>> john: yeah, i just spent a week in the very sandy spot known as saudi arabia.>> dom: and we'll come back to that in a bit
because that's kind of part in parcel of whatyou do. >> john: indeed.>> dom: and you got there through what you do.>> john: absolutely. >> dom: if i can ask you just a little bit,before we get into the nitty-gritty of networking, what's your background?>> john: well, i guess like a lot of people, i've done an awful lot of things in my time.from sort of school days at various different schools through to a little bit of a careerwith the metropolitan police in london. from there, i did a little trip and went aroundthe world for about a year and a half, and then came back. i could have either gone backinto doing the police and that sort of thing,
but i sort of headed off into a more salesand marketing role, and started it with a few small companies like a lot of people do.it was sort of financial services and things like that, which was a bit awkward becauseit was at the start of a recession. it was a little bit like learning to drive in a landrover. it was a bit tricky. but it was something i liked and enjoyed, and then you learn asyou're going along. i sold car rentals. i've sold manila folders of files and all sortsof different bits and bobs. realistically, the way i've done it all theway through has been via what we're discussing, which is networking and making friends withpeople as much as anything else. the reality is, i suppose it's something that i've donereally since i was a kid at school, just making
friends with people is what i like doing.more recently, i've been working with a company that's been quite significantly involved withthe olympic games in london, which is happening in a few months time, and bringing forwarda few contracts with them. and then we went through a bit of a chop anda change in september last year when i pretty much set out on my own now. i'm doing a numberof things, but they all really revolve around networking which is obviously how we got tostart talking, dom. >> dom: yeah, so you kind of began to givea little bit of an introduction. but just so that we're all on – as our american friendswould say – so we're all on the same page, to you, what is networking and why is it importantto business?
>> john: i think it literally is as simpleas making friends with people. there's a very old adage, and some of these do hold trueas you know, and the original one is people do buy off people they like. online, it'san interesting thing because i think it becomes a lot more generic and you don't necessarilyhave to know people to communicate with them. but as you put the old shaky hand thing, ithink that's definitely, definitely still got a place. it does make a difference ifyou look at somebody in the eye and literally shake their hand, and talk to them, and createthat bond and relationship. it helps. >> dom: you mentioned about online there.i do think – and this is something i'm going to flag to the listeners; where you are specifically,at the moment anyway, your history is in literally
being physically around people and becomingknown by them and learning about them. >> john: absolutely.>> dom: which is part and parcel of networking. but there will be parts of this that i thinkmap to the online space, and i might call that out as we go through.>> john: absolutely. >> dom: but can you give me an example ofa specific benefit to you or to a business of this making friends, of being known topeople, or you knowing people? >> john: well, i suppose, off the top of myhead and where we are right now, as you know – and i'll explain to your listeners, i'massociated with one or two different businesses, one of which is carbon fiber technology, whichrealistically is starting to work now.
we're doing some work on making it work onan online basis, but the origins of that come from about three or four years ago, whichwas literally meeting a guy called tom andrews as a byproduct of something completely different,and then keeping in touch. not a lot of pressure in terms of us needing to do things at anyone time, but developing a relationship and a friendship more critically that when thetime is right. tom introduced this idea of this wacky carbonfiber mask thing which he thinks is going to revolutionize the telecoms industry, etc.it was quite interesting to me when i first heard about it; but i was doing the olympicgames, so that didn't work. but we kept talking and that's the primary thing. you talk, youchat, you just keep in the loop of what's
going on. and as i say, in september whenthat time came that i wanted to make a change and do something a little bit different, hewas the first person i rang. and what do you know, he still had the opportunityand it was probably a little bit better position than it was when we originally spoke. that'show these things happen. it's just remembering and keeping in touch and tapping people onthe shoulder all the time, on a very physical if not verbal communicative sense that helpsyou develop and helps you move these things forward.>> dom: so how do you meet people? how do you get in touch with people? how does itall start? >> john: well, i guess in some ways, it startslike being back at school; you've got to put
your hand up, you've got to get spotted bypeople, and you need to put yourself in places where other people are going to be. and isuppose that in some ways, you need to be a little targeted by what your – to quotethe online phraseology – your niche or your piece of business is affiliated or specializestowards. and again, if i give the example of the olympics,there were a number of things that – well number one, local. the london organising committeefor the game used to set up big, what they called 'working parties,' for people who wereinterested in being involved with that organization, and that setup could go to and attend. youcould even speak at some of these things as well.if you had the nerve to go up and put yourself
in the line, you could go and talk to peopleat these events as well, and then literally stick your hand up, ask a question. if thereare people who you see who have been speaking or people who are there that you're interestedto meet, make sure you go up and shake their hand and say something to them. that's actuallyscary to some people. if i'm being absolutely honest, on occasion, it's scary to me.you get into a room where you don't know anybody. well, you could leave the room in the sameposition or you could wander up and say, "hello, how are you?" sometimes, it works; sometimes,gloriously, it doesn't. but i guess the one thing about that is once you have shaked ahand with somebody and had five minutes with them, the next time you are in the same roomyou know the person, and it's that little
bit easier to just go up and talk to themagain. >> dom: that's a very good point. now i justwant to pick up on a couple of things that you said there. because i'm one of those people– and this is probably going to come as a little bit of a surprise to the listeners,because here i am talking to myself in a room somewhere in the backend of spain. but basically,i'm putting myself out there and seem like some kind of media luminary.but in fact, i'm quite a shy person in public and in situations where, as you put it, aroomful of people you don't know. i find it quite difficult to just wander up to randompeople and go, "hey, hi, how are you doing?" i'm always stuck for something to say or anapproach. is there anything in particular,
any tips for that?>> john: it happens to me. it happens to everybody. i don't think that's anything necessarilyto be afraid of, because it can be a little bit awkward. but i think you just start somewhere.literally, a "hello, i'm john davy," or, "i'm dom goucher," or i'm who i am, and this iswhat i do. and sometimes, it works. sometimes, you can then extend off and responses andfeedback will allow you to sort of progress along that path, which might diverse and goplaces, and all kinds of different things. and other times, you're going to get peoplethat are going to stare you in the face and go, "you're not very interesting." i thinkat that point, there's an element of skin of the rhino. don't get offended if peopledon't want to talk to you. it sort of doesn't
matter. to an extent, at these events, you'vegot a fixed period of time, you've got a number of people in a room. i'm not going to sayrun around and talk to everybody, but it's just a matter of you've got to be a littlebit brave. you've got to put a bit of a face on, andyou've got to go up to people and just say hello. there's no great unlocking secret here.there's no great answer to that question, in some ways. but the positive side of itis if you do actually pluck up the courage a little bit and don't get necessarily offendedthat people don't want to talk to you, people will.>> dom: that's a good philosophy. one thing that i actually found by accident – becausein the online marketing space, there are a
lot of conferences; there are a lot of peopledoing just general conferences or teaching conferences, and i attended a few of thosein the last few years. something that i found helped me was, as you say, you say put yourhand up. but what i did was i found, i noticed peoplewho asked questions. if those people asked what i thought was an intelligent question,and if i thought that i could add value to the answer that; say, the person at the fronthad given an answer, but they've got limited time. if i felt i could add value to the personthat put their hand up, then in the breaks, it gave me a way to approach people.>> john: absolutely, 100%. that really is a very easy way to do things. and the other– not that i've done it an awful lot – but
i have stood up on occasions and spoke topeople, and that is unbelievably brilliant because you've got maybe a hundred or a coupleof hundred people in a room. and in some ways, they're forced to be there or they paid tobe there. they sit and listen to what you say. but thefact that you've stood up on a stage if you like and read some kind of prepared pieceto them, afterwards, they'll all come up to you because they feel they know you already.they certainly know your name, and it does ease them into feeling more comfortable totalking. but you're absolutely right; people ask youquestions, you've already seen somebody who's prepared to talk, because he's asked a question.so if you go up to him and say, "look, that
was an interesting question you asked, blahblah blah," you're moving on. so yeah, that's a great little technique.>> dom: let's say we start a conversation somewhere, and this is really why i got youon. because a lot of the time on preneurcast, we talk about theoretical things, or we talkabout business and growing your profits and things like that. it's a little bit impersonal.we do talk about handling customers and dealing with customers and things like that, but it'sstill to me a little bit impersonal. what i love about what you do is it's so personal,but it's also so scary for people like me and i'm sure a lot of people out there. iknow a lot of people go to conferences or maybe even knowledgably go to a networkingevent, but don't actually do anything about
it.so what are the things, what's your goal? what do you got to remember? if you just goto one of these events – obviously let's make it explicit; you've actually got to talkto people, otherwise you're not networking. but after that, what kind of things are youlooking out for when you're talking to people? >> john: it could be anything and everythingto an extent. again, i think we'll come back to a thing i said earlier in that i said it'sthe same in everything. you're going to go to an event that's of interest to you. andreally, it's what do you want to do? you want to find out information; you want to findout things you don't know that you can potentially use in the progression and the promotion ofyour own interests and your own business.
and it's a bit like trade shows or conferences,they're the same thing. you get an awful lot of like-minded people in the same room, sothere's an immense amount of value in the potential conversations you could had becauseyou don't know everything i know, dom. i certainly don't know everything you do. but chancesare, if we're sitting in a room, you might overhear other people talking about differentthings. you know, there is an argument that you canjust go around and listen at these events and listen to what other people are saying,and you can get a lot of value out of it. but like with everything else, i suppose it'sthe more you put in, the more you get out. to an extent, i thought, and the way i doit sometimes – like i said, i'm not always
comfortable at these things, i get just asscared as anybody else in some of these environments, certainly when you think people are playingabove your field of where you are, then it does get a little bit scary.but i don't think i've ever been to an occasion where i can't put a sort of persona on of,"right, i am john davy. but maybe i'm now john davy at a conference or at a seminar,"and i just put a little bit of a shell around me that isn't going to be offended if peoplearen't necessarily interested in what i'm going to say.and you just get to that point of possibly in some ways playing a little bit of a numbersgame, and just talk to one or two people, talk to three, talk to four, pop around, shakea hand. if they don't talk to you, somebody
next door. if you don't want to do it, standor listen. as i say, you can gain other things in different ways.>> dom: that's, again, a good perspective on it. the big thing, people have stereotypesin their mind. the stereotype of networking is, as i jokingly said, and please don't takeoffense, but this shaky-hand man; the guy who runs around the room, runs up to you,shakes your hand, forces a business card on you, and almost leaves you in a bewilderedstate. and that's not a good thing to do. that's not going to benefit you, is it, really?>> john: there's different ways of doing everything, and look, yes, i've experienced that and seenit on a number of occasions. they're like automaton machines. it's a bit like terminatorcoming 'round and you see this blur flying
around with somebody and they come up andthey say, "hello. how are you? who are you?" and you tell them, and by the time you said"who are you?" they've given you a card and they're gone.and i personally, i don't really see the value in that. i don't see how they can take itonboard, but people do that. it's just there's all sort of different ways that people cando things, and that is one of them which i wouldn't necessarily adhere to myself or recommendin a lot of cases because it does wind people up as well. it's a bit like spamming.>> dom: yeah. i think there is a correlation here, between the online world and the offline,real world as it were. and that is to me anyway, it's about adding value. you said from yourpoint of view what you want to get is knowledge
of people out there that may be useful toyour business or information that may be useful to your business in the future. if you thinkabout it like this, i'm sure if you're out there looking for that, other people are outthere looking for that as well. so maybe you can speak to this. but in mymind, if when, like my example of answering somebody who's already asked a question; ifyou can take yourself up to that person and add value by saying, "hey, here's an extrapiece of information about your question," or, "i've got some experience in that field,"or whatever, to me, that is a more positive step towards building that relationship. becausethe thing is that you're not just after information, you really are after building a relationshipwith these people.
>> john: and you're showing an interest inthem. >> dom: yeah.>> john: which is one of the best ways you can get something in return from somebody,is to actually be interested in what they do and their physical specific interest thatthey have. i think that, as you well know with me, the online side of this is sort ofa relatively recent thing. but as a networking individual, the tools that the internet providesare utterly incredible for helping you with this process.i think what i'm coming to is like putting together the tools that you have in the likesof twitter and facebook, and all these different things, but then using them in your physicaltouch, handshake element to what you do. an
example might be of that is if you are goingto a conference and you know who the speakers are going to be, or there's an exhibitor list.it's so easy nowadays to go onto twitter and do some research and build a list of a specificnumber of people at a conference. so you already know them before you go. thatgives you certain advantages if you like in terms of the fact that if there's somebodyyou're specifically interested in and they're tweeting about stuff, well that sort of givesyou another solution of what you just said, that you can walk up to this person and talkto them about something that they're already interested in, what kind of a head start doesthat give you? >> dom: that's brilliant. i mean, that's literally,that was the next question i had for you,
was, it was, "if for example you go to a conferenceor an event and you know somebody that you're interested in talking to, how would you approachthat person?" again, it's interesting to look at things from both sides of the coin. it'sone thing to sit at the back of a room, see somebody put their hand up and ask a question,and you approach that person in the break. but you gave the example of a great thingto let people talk to you is to be the guy who stood on the stage. but being the guywho sat at the back of the room, looking at the guy who stood on the stage, that's quitea big mountain to climb. quite a few great little tips all in one go, to use the onlineresources that are available to us and have to do some research to find out what thatperson's been talking about, what they're
interested in, and then that gives you theopening line, especially again if you can add value.>> john: there's one other thing that just pops in my head so i'm going to say it. wheni was in saudi, i was in a conference over there and i was a bit bored because nothingwas going on, and i got on my apps thing and found this thing. i don't know if you've heardabout it, but it's called sonar. it basically links into everybody who's on a twitter accountand stuff that's in the room, and comes up with all their details.so what i said before about you can research on twitter, well you can actually do thatwhen you're sitting in the room, because it just beacons in what everybody who is aroundyou who's registered on twitter or facebook
or whatever, and it tells you all about them.i'll just chuck that in there. >> dom: wow. that's pretty scary, but an exampleof the power of technology. and very often it is just that one little thing that canbreak the ice, that can give you an introduction, an opening line.>> john: anything that can give you an advantage really, isn't it?>> dom: yeah, anything that can get you over that initial fear. so let's just break outthese very specific examples for a second about how you do it, and let's get back towhy. can you give us an example of how you knowing one person and then meeting anotherperson, let's say, has allowed you to build and kind of grow your network? and if it happenedto just include the very exotic location of
saudi, saudi arabia, then that would be agreat example. >> john: yeah. well, that all originated outof one phone call that came in. i have no idea who gave him the number and why, buti was sitting outside a pub in tetbury called the snooty fox. this phone goes off and there'sa guy at the end of the phone called jo otayek who i've never spoke to before in my life.he just wanted to chat and he was talking about an event called the race of champions,which you may have heard, but i'll just give a brief explanation.they build a motorsport circuit in a stadium. in the case i was involved in, we did it inwembley stadium in london. the likes of michael schumacher come and race around, and theyend up with a champion at the end of the night.
it's a very popular event. this guy was insaudi and he worked for red bull. he also was moved onto a company called sela sportover there. they wanted to look at staging the event over there and apparently, i wasthe expert at doing it. so we had a chat, and the next thing thathappens is i always tend to – when you finish a conversation, one of the most importantthings to do is follow up on it and do something. to quote one of your phrases, "do an actionpoint on it." in this case, i did what everybody did and googled up the company he was workingwith. the first thing i found was that they sponsored the saudi national team for someinordinate amount of money. he definitely had my attention at that point,and look, i did my best to cultivate him,
give him the information that he needed tohelp him make a decision, and invited him to come and see a trade show that we weredoing over in the uk, which he did. we had a couple of days together then, so you developthe relationship. we got on, we were at least acquainted, if not getting near to being notnecessarily friends, but we were certainly well-acquainted.at the end of that two-day period – this is about three or four years ago, we justhad a conversation about, "well, look, you're here, i'm there. we need something on occasionsand you need something on occasions. why don't we act as eyes and ears for each other inour relative countries?" from that little acorn has sprung this business which i nowhave, i can say international facilities and
sourcing, which is literally about facilitatingand sourcing products for people in different places.it relies entirely on networks of people. so for example jo might ring me up and say,– well, i'll give you the example. the first bit of business we did, he wanted a 1989 lamborghiniclutch for a lamborghini '89 countach. he said, "can you find us one?" and i did. wesold it for, i don't know, us$6,500. so the sale number 1 of my business was a lamborghinisecondhand clutch going to saudi arabia. that came out of one phone call outside apub. and then tapping on the shoulder, keeping in touch, giving the information that peopleneed, not asking anything particularly of them, but waiting for that opportunity toactually act on something and do something
that can generate a little bit of businessfor you. that business last year, by the way, just to let you know, turned over about halfa million dollars. >> dom: and all based upon networking.>> john: yeah, exactly that. from my backroom, from my office, from my bedroom.>> dom: it's a great example. i am aware of that and many other examples. you and i havetalked about this offline, and that's really why i've got you on the call, because youreally are the embodiment of the power of networking. to kind of just bring this backtogether into one place, really networking is about first of all meeting people in oneway or another, and letting those people know what you can do, what is your core competencyor what your business is about, what you're
good at, that kind of thing.and finding out about them, and then maintaining the relationship, maintaining contact withthem, so that over time if you're aware of something that's of interest or benefit tothem in their business, you can basically give them a referral. and if they're awareof something that's relevant to you, you'll get one back. it's a mutual thing, yeah?>> john: exactly that, yes. >> dom: picking that apart, we talked aboutmeeting people, we talked about why you might want to do it. what about staying in contact?what kind of things do you do to stay in contact with people?>> john: well, that's where, to an extent, the social media stuff comes in. i'm old enoughin the tooth to remember when it was a notebook
and a filofax and that kind of stuff. obviously,we've changed substantially since then and you can keep in contact with people all overthe world very, very easily. to me, that's exactly where the internet comes into play.but also, the other thing is verbal and physical communication.i tend to be one of those people that even in my social life, i'm the bloke that alwaysrings up and says, "bet you want to go out and have a beer." whereas, i'm sure there'sa lot of people that would sit in a little cocoon in places and never ever go out unlesssomebody actually rung them up and asked them. i mean, it seems like most of my mates arelike that to be absolutely honest. but i'm the bloke that will always ring up, and i'lldo that in business.
a mate of mine used to say it's like the rolodex,and you have this list of people you're in touch with. nowadays, your rolodex's yourmobile phone. so it's all your address directories and your contact numbers. what happens tome is i'm driving along and i'm bored, so i just ring people. it might just be ringingthem to say, "hello, how you doing? what's going on?" nothing more than that, talk aboutfootball, talk about anything that you want, it doesn't matter. but every now and then,you ring them. either you might have a point or they mighthave a point. but if you don't talk to them, they don't talk to you. and to me, that'swhere the' workflow,' to quote again the online phrase, comes in that you've got to keep justgently tapping people on the shoulder. they
need to know you're still there. and that'sabout maintenance and then in some ways development of that relationship that you care about them,you're interested in them, you do keep ringing them.>> dom: great, great. and that, to me, does map to the online world and the less directcontact you talked about right at the beginning, the opportunities the new technologies arebringing us. because, for example, this podcast is a way that i let people know, and petelets people know, what the topics that we're interested in, what we're up to right now,and what we're good at. >> john: and it humanizes what you're doing.>> dom: and it humanizes what we're doing. just like blogging.>> john: exactly.
>> dom: blogging is a great way to let peopleknow. and if you're in a more structured business or you've got a bit more of a client base,maybe you've even been sending out emails with an autoresponder sequence to just keeppeople up-to-date with what's going on in your business. it's a great way to just keepin touch with a lot of people. it's slightly more impersonal but it just makes sure everybodygets some idea of what's going on. >> john: you can just come back to it, ifyou like, a balance then of what you're going to do. because there's a lot of, to me, there'sa lot of my sort of interest in the online thing comes partly based out of the idea thateverything's dictating down that digital path, and you don't almost have to talk to people.well, what i say is well, yeah, to an extent
you're right, but you do have to talk to people,you do have to communicate and physically keep in touch with people to make the absolutebest and the optimum approach to what you're doing.>> dom: i agree. i mean, despite being heavily involved in the online world at the end ofthe day, and my clients will attest to this, the first thing that happens, i get referrals,in fact my entire business is referral-based. >> john: which is why we're talking. i mean,that's exactly how we came together, was because of a physical relationship that i have withsomebody else who you know who said go and talk to this guy. that's so important, thatpeople – and it's developing trust. >> dom: yeah, especially for the kind of servicesthat my company offers. you know, i've got
something to sell, it's quite a specialistservice. it's quite high-end, and the people that i work with, i want to get on with them,i have long-term ongoing relationships with my clients. so getting those clients throughreferrals is a great way for me to do that. but in order to do that, in order for peopleto refer the right people to me, i need to get out there to my existing client base andtalk to them and let them know what kind of clients i want and what kind of services ioffer. because if people aren't aware of what youdo, they can't tell anybody else, and that to me is one of these core things about whatwe're talking about here. is wherever you are, whatever you're doing, whether it's you'vegone to a conference or you're at one of these
networking events, whether it's a networkingbreakfast or a huge event or whether you're online and just talking about things, to me,it's really core that you've got your story sorted out.>> john: yep, you're absolutely right. and what that does is it develops and it allowspeople to trust you. and the best way that people can trust you is by being in touchwith you on all manner of levels. but probably the best one is when they can shake you inthe hand and stare you in the eye. all those sensory perceptions that people make theirminds up on things really comes into focus, i think, when you're standing in the sameroom and you're physically talking with somebody. that whole history of your life is about howyou closet and put things in a box, and sometimes
you get it wrong and sometimes you get itright. but as you go through life, your ability to assess people and see if you're going toget on with people, see if they're going to become your friends, on the whole, takes placewhen you're physically in a room with them. >> dom: and i think you made a good pointindirectly there which is the more you do this, the easier it gets.>> john: you're right there. absolutely. some people are naturally shy. and you said yourself,you probably wouldn't believe that i'm shy but there are occasions when i am. what i'dlike to get out to people about that is look, it's not an uncommon thing. don't be embarrassedabout it because we all get it in one form or another.especially when you're out of your comfort
zone, of people you work with on whateverlevel or you're not in an industry you understand; it becomes a little bit more difficult. butthe one thing it does, if you do talk to people, if you do take that brave step and just dipyour toe in the water, it gets easier every time.>> dom: yeah. i can absolutely attest to this. the first conference i went to, i don't thinkthat i really came away from it with very much at all. and then the next time – thetwo things that helped me was: looking for those people who asked the questions and seeingif i could add value, and the other one was just being ready with, again, what's referredto in other circles, it was an elevator pitch. it's not really an elevator pitch, it's justbeing able to succinctly tell people who you
are and what you do. here's a thing. i probablyhaven't told you this, but because of my very varied background, i know a lot about lotsof different things including print. and i came across two things that have helped mea lot. one of them is something from pete's world. pete talks about a service called sendout cards. we talked a lot, in this call, about physicalcontact and doing things physically. pete uses send out cards, which is an online digitalcard printing service. they're like greeting cards; to order cards that are bespoke, thatare customized to the person you're sending it to. so they're each printed individuallyfor the people. there's other services out there that do it in different parts of theworld, but pete uses it to regularly keep
in contact with people. if you remember somebody'sbirthday, for example. >> john: yep.>> dom: so that's a way of following up, because one of the points you made was follow up withpeople. >> john: yeah. i mean, it's hugely important.>> dom: yeah, hugely important. and different ways of doing it, including making yourselfstand out by sending a card rather than the standard email which can be a little bit impersonal.but on the upfront side, i had another thing that i worked out, based on a similar system.there's a service out there that i use – and i'll put a link to all this in the show notes.these people will print a hundred cards for a very reasonable price. a hundred businesscards, and they've got a couple of distinctive
shapes. some of them are smaller, some ofthem are rounded corners. but when you have a service that can print you 100 cards fora reasonable price, you get to the point where you could actually have cards made for a particularevent. and i did this a couple of times. i actuallyhad a card which had my brand information and my general kind of message on the front.but on the back, i actually wrote a little kind of witty passage that was specific tothe event. i wrote something like, "i went to the manchester conference in august 2011,and i met this guy called dom goucher. he knows a lot about podcasting, and online marketing,and digital video. i should give him a call on this number or i should send him an emailon this address."
it basically encapsulates all in one littlething everything that you want to achieve by talking to people. it gives them that littlereminder that they can take away. so rather than just having a standard business cardthat says, "john davy, international facilities, etc., etc," which might tell them what youdo in a vague way, but it doesn't really give them all the information that you want themto have. you can, very cheaply and easily, get these things done that you can just handout. it's a little cv, a little resume for you.>> john: especially if you're at a trade show or anything like that, or a specific conference.if you can make it bespoke to that place and they'll remember the conference and they'llremember you being part of it, sounds like
a cracking idea.>> dom: yeah. and that again worked for me also as a talking point. if you feel the conversationslowing down, because you talked about that, the one thing i don't have is that rhino skin.if i started talking to somebody and the whole room goes quiet and a tumbleweed whistlespast… >> john: yeah, never good. never good.>> dom: never good. i still haven't mastered the art of shuffling away quietly.>> john: i have, you see. look, you can't help it. sometimes that happens. and you alsofind on the outside of that, there are a lot of people who feel the same way as you. andthe fact that you actually just take the time to say hello, nine times out of 10, it's anice breaker and it lets you develop and go.
you know, it's not all bad for sure.>> dom: that's a good point that you made there though. that if you were in a room fullof people and you don't know anybody, just think that maybe nobody else does either.as you said earlier, especially if you go to a conference or an event that's focusedon a particular topic or niche, you do have something in common with those people. it'sthat niche, it's that topic, it's whatever you've gone to the conference about. there'sdefinitely got to be something you have in coming, because you're in the same room.>> john: exactly right. and they're all there to do what you're hoping to do.>> dom: yeah. so we're getting close to time, it's been a great chat. i've picked up sometips and it's a great perspective to hear
that somebody who does this for a living andis very successful at it still has the same problems that the rest of us have.>> john: we're all human. >> dom: we're all human, yeah. last time ilooked, anyway. although pete, i'm not so sure about because that guy's just got energycoming out of his ears. have you got like a top five tips for somebody getting startedor who wants to start using networking, be a more effective networker?>> john: yeah. the basic premise is put your brave face on and stick your hand up if youcan. because you've got this opportunity and this room full of people that are doing whatyou're doing. if you can stick your hand up, you've got a chance you're going to go somewhere.and the other thing is, there's a number of
little things like taking your time. whatthis is not about is getting introduced to somebody and doing the speed-dating, speed-networkthing of introduce, and try and sell to somebody immediately.if you take time to smell the roses and really listen to people and show an interest in whatthey're doing, then you're going to do a little bit better than you might if you didn't. that'spretty important. again, coming back to the point of following up, once you've made allthat effort and you've got brave and you've spoken to somebody and you've done that firstbit and go over it, well, don't forget them. don't leave them and let them forget you.just keep in their minds. you don't have to be in their faces all thetime, but just drop them a line. as you say,
give them that card that you developed forthe event and just keep them in your head. then just keep gently tapping them on theshoulder. the one thing that i've found recently and i think is a massive tool for that humanelement of networking is the social tools you can get to do.the twitters, the facebooks, the various things people allow and publish so many things aboutthemselves that you would never have known about just a few years ago. so it's just aboutbringing in all these little tools in together that can help you with these networking events,and maybe doing a little bit of advanced research before you go somewhere never hurts as well.so four or five things there hopefully that people might find a bit of use to them.>> dom: that's great john. i love the summary,
i do like it. one of the reasons that i askedyou to come on the call is that you do strongly believe that it's a mutual thing, that asyou say, you need to listen to people. you don't need to walk straight up to them andexpect something to happen or for you to get something from them immediately.>> john: i think that's vital because nobody likes – people buy because they want tobuy from you. i'm sorry; just let me get a phrase that works. you can either sell somethingto somebody, or you can get them mentally to want to buy from you. and i think thatlatter one is the best thing to do. how you do that is you don't actually go out and doyour double-glazing salesman, and try and tie him into a corner and do something. youwant to become their friend. you want to become
their friend who's interesting to them partlybecause you've got something to offer. >> dom: yeah. as we can both attest, you'vebuilt an entire business on networking over your career, which is a very successful business.my business, my media production business, is successful by and large thanks to my networkof clients who have made referrals and suggested me and my services to their friends and colleagues.i haven't actually actively gone out there and asked for the referral, i've got thatreferral through having done a good job and through having made clear the services thati offer; and the people can refer their friends and colleagues to me, just like you.>> john: that's because you're dom goucher. you are dom who has this talent of doing thingsat high-end production of various things.
but people know you. it's not like you'reata video services or something like that, you're a person.>> dom: and that's a really good point actually. yeah, that's a really good point. it is me.it's not my business that's getting the referral, it is that personal aspect of it. and that'squite important to remember. and i think that's a great place to wrap all this up, john. ireally appreciate your time. i know you're a busy guy, flying all over the world, soit's not been that different from having pete on the call, really.>> john: well, just thanks very much for inviting me on because it's been a great pleasure.i hope we can do it again sometime, that would be great.>> dom: yeah, that's great. now before we
go, you said that you were just getting startedin the online space. is there a way online that people can find you and find out moreabout you? >> john: funnily enough, there is. we havea website called biznetworkguy.com. that's in its early infancy days, but it's goingto hopefully add a bit of online content and tips and suggestions. i'd like it to be, again,the networking thing is going to be great if we can persuade people to feed back intoit and come up with their own ideas and their own experiences, and it's a little bit holistichopefully in that approach. if you visit that site, there are a coupleof other things that i'm running at the moment which is a little bit more on the tangiblebusiness fronts. so you can get a sense of
what i'm doing in different areas like themiddle east and the stuff there. there's a carbon fiber technology system that we'redoing some work with, and you'll be able to find links to those things there. but thenetworking hub, the real bit of what my ethos, life is about is biznetworkguy.>> dom: that's great. hopefully, people pop over. i've put a link to that in the shownotes. people can pop over and visit it. but you're more than welcome, thank you very muchfor your time, john. well, hopefully, you'll tap me on the shoulder later on in the yearand let me know how you're getting on. >> john: i won't be worrying about that toomuch. cheers. >> dom: cheers, john.>> john: thank you.
>> dom: ok folks, that was john davy, biznetwork guy at biznetworkguy.com, really appreciate john popping on. as i said, it was interestingfor me to get a little personal side to things, a little bit more direct, hands-on. becausein business, you do come across people that you meet, wherever they are. my one tip toadd to something that john said is be on the lookout, have it in your mind, be on the lookoutfor people who might be interesting or useful additions to your network of people.you should always be open to people. you should always have a chat with people who you meetand be friendly. it's not about, "ooh, what can they do for me?" which is kind of thewrong attitude, as john said. it's just about getting yourself known. but my summary ofthat is, as john says, put your hand up, get
yourself out there. so before we close, ijust talk about our second sponsor, not our last sponsor.audible books, a fantastic service for listening to content which is a great way to consumeit. and like with read it for me, we've got a deal for you, a free trial. if you headto audibletrial.com/preneurcast, you can get access to a free trial and a free downloadof any one of the books from their library of over 100,000 titles that you can downloadand listen to on your portable audio playing device. i do recommend you do that, a littlebit of a bonus for being a preneurcast listener there.i'm going to wrap it up because we're getting to time. thanks, everybody, for listeningjust to me and to john; and thanks for coming,
john. next week, we'll see how pete recoversfrom his honeymoon. it could be another grab bag surprise episode. if you've got any ideas,just in the same way that john dropped us a line and let us know what he's about, dropus a line at preneurcast@preneurgroup.com, and let us know if there's something you wantto hear more about. if there's somebody who you'd like us to tryand get as an interview, or if you think that you would like to be interviewed on the show,if you've got something interesting to add to the audience, because this is an audiencedriven show. we love your feedback on the site over at premeurmedia.tv, and on the itunes,we love to get reviews there. so that's it from me, on my own, and see you next week.
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